What If Your “Independence” Is Armor

If receiving a compliment makes you scramble for an excuse, or accepting help feels like losing control, there’s a good chance you’re not “too independent” you’re underreceiving. Cristine Seidell sits down with therapist Kaylee Finlay to unpack why so many capable, caring people become the dependable helper in every room, then quietly feel lonely, unseen, and sometimes resentful about it.

We dig into the overgiver identity and where it often starts: family systems with emotionally immature parents, low emotional attunement, and a childhood role that rewards being outward-focused. When your needs don’t get mirrored, being seen can feel unfamiliar, and your body can interpret unfamiliar as unsafe. That’s how deflecting compliments, minimizing achievements, and fearing that you “take up too much space” become automatic. We also name hyperindependence for what it is in many relationships: a protective strategy that avoids vulnerability by staying in control, even when connection is what you want most.

Then we get practical. Kaylee shares therapy tools that build your capacity to receive, including compassionate curiosity, gently slowing down when you want to move away from vulnerability, and asking the surprisingly hard question: “What would feel good to receive right now?” We also explore how overgiving can block reciprocity and how creating space is sometimes the most loving act you can offer your partner, friends, and yourself. If you’ve been carrying the heavy burden of grievance and bitterness, this conversation offers a clearer path back to belonging. Subscribe, share with a fellow overgiver, and leave a review with the one thing you’re practicing receiving this week.

To learn more about Kaylee and her work, you can find her at:

https://www.risetherapycenter.com/kaylee

and @brighterskiescounseling on Instagram

Thank you for tuning into And Still WE Rise! If you would like to learn more about me or the work our practice is doing, feel free to follow us on Instagram at:

@atltherapygirl and @risetherapycenter

Or check us out at www.risetherapycenter.com

Disclaimer: And Still We Rise is meant to provide perspective and meaningful conversations around mental health topics. It is not meant to provide specific therapeutic advise to individuals. If anything in these podcasts resonates, ASWR recommends consulting with your individual therapist or seeking a referral from your primary care physician.

Transcript

Welcome Back And Today’s Focus

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello and welcome to Unstill We Rise. I'm your host, Christine Seidel, and today we are returning with Kaylee Finley. Welcome, Kaylee. Thank you. Thank you. Absolutely. She's one of our therapists here at Rise Therapy Center. We have some other talks that she's come on, and I'm going to link them at the end of this video. But today, it's one of actually our favorite conversations. We talk a lot about things. Yes, we do. Learning to receive and how that has become really a hot topic in a lot of our therapy sessions. And I think just in relationships in general, is recognizing that there are some individuals out there that really are having a hard time receiving in relationships. So can you tell us a little bit about this person, this type of person that is really struggling to receive in relationships?

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Yeah, I mean, I think you and I talk a lot about it because as therapists, you know, we're so used to giving and we kind of see that pattern in ourselves too. Um, but then also like in our clients, we see clients coming in who have this identity built around being a helper. Being, you know, they'll come in and say, like, you know, I was told as a kid that like I was the one everyone went to, right? Or I knew how to cheer everyone up, or you know, oh, I just like giving to people, like, but there's something, but then they also say that they feel lonely or they feel like they don't get as much back. And it almost like builds this like internal resentment in a way sometimes uh that they can't always name because there's like a guilt associated with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Ooh, that's a perfect explanation, is that you you they see the actions that they're giving, but there is this internal like grievance around not feeling satisfied or not feeling, you know, the reciprocity of what they're giving. And a loneliness, I think that's a really good word, is like the loneliness of being in relationships.

How Overgivers Get Formed In Childhood

SPEAKER_00 2:03

And you know, from an inner child therapist or like attachment and ego lens, which is what we kind of look at things through our work here at Rise, we do recognize that a lot of these kids come from family systems where there was one or both emotionally immature parents. And so what we see is this child becomes very observing of the adult's feelings, the adult's beliefs, the adult's thoughts, that or those parents really are kind of like self-focused. Their worldview is really about their worldview, and there's not a lot of curiosity from these parents on like the child. Like, what is the child's thoughts? What are the child's beliefs? What are the child's feelings? These are households where maybe, you know, like their basic needs were met, like clothing, food, but there wasn't a lot of discussions around like, hey, what do you think about this, or what do you believe about this topic? It was very much about the adult's worldview on things. And so this child kind of grows up with this very outward-focused, you know, presentation and perspective of what do others think, feel, and believe, yeah, and how can I meet them there? Exactly. And so they do kind of like have a little bit of this void of their own needs, which is really resonating with their family of origin. So that's kind of where the overgiver or the underreceiver kind of begins to form is in that childhood phase of an emotional attunement or lack of attunement from their parents or caregivers.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Yeah, and I think you know, we can talk like the parents play a role, and also when we look at like our society of like, you know, we want giving to others is a great thing. Yeah, you know, it's really valued in a lot of like religions and cultures. It's just, you know, you should give back all the time, right? A lot of recognition. A lot of recognition. Like, even we tell kids when they're young, like, you need to share, it's gonna hurt their feelings, which like these are not inherently bad values, yeah, right? Yeah, it's just when it combines with these emotionally immature parents or dysfunctional relationships or lack of identity being built or lack of like recognition of their own needs, that it kind of creates a cycle of discomfort around receiving.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Yeah, and it's they I think the client begins to recognize this imbalance, you know. So, what do you see in clients that show up around identity or relationships? Like, what are some of these key themes that they're kind of experiencing, or maybe some of these belief

Vulnerability And The Fear Of Being Seen

SPEAKER_00 4:36

systems that they have around receiving?

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Yeah, I think it comes up a lot where it's just like they don't know how to be vulnerable with other people because when we're only the giver, that kind of protects us from a lack of or from a situation of vulnerability, right? Yeah, there's no space. There's no space, we're not it's not focusing on us and our needs, it's focusing on someone else. And that's safer, right? Yeah, because we get to then control like what we give or what that person gives. But if someone's giving to us, that's being seen too.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

And that can be really scary, especially for you know now adults who grew up in a household where they were not seen, right? Um, they don't know how to receive that. So there's that discomfort, but there's also this question in these clients of like, why are these relationships hard for me?

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Yeah. And I think that being seen piece is so important because being seen in childhood is so much about our identity. You know, when our parents or caregivers or like teachers or other authority figures see us and they're like, wow, like you are so amazing in this, that, or the other, we get to share part of that world and our identity is becoming integrated in who we are, and that we can carry that out into the world. But being seen in childhood where there was a worldview where our selfness really didn't translate into anything becomes very unsafe. It's so unfamiliar. It's like, well, wait, like if I'm not giving, who am I? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

When there's a bigger identity, and oftentimes the people who are trying to give to that person, yeah, see that bigger identity, right? They see that worthiness, they see like the good that person has and that inherent worthiness, but our you know, hypothetical client here doesn't see that.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Yeah, yeah. It's almost like it's unknown to them, right? So if it's unknown or unfamiliar, it must be unsafe.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Yeah, when we know that's not true, right? Like we something can be unknown, unfamiliar, even uncomfortable without it being unsafe.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, something I I

Compliments, Worthiness, And Taking Up Space

SPEAKER_00 7:01

see like right off the bat with clients, which is like a telltale sign, is like their inability to take a compliment without some type of response, like by dismissing it or devaluing it, oh yeah, oh, you like the shirt, I got it on sale, or it was like, you know, and just not just receiving the compliment, you know, because it's such an uncomfortable thing. It's almost like I have to like prove that I didn't spend too much on it, or I have to prove that I worked really hard to like get this, or that I, you know, oh, I I have nice eyes, but like, you know, they're blurry today, or whatever. Like there's this earning or proving. What are some of these fundamental narratives that they might have around worthiness?

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Yeah, I think you know, that kind of ties into like this idea of like the modesty and humility and these like things that are not inherently bad qualities to have, but have been exasperated, right? Yeah. Um, and so some of those beliefs are, you know, I have to earn this worthiness. I have to earn it, I have to show that I actually didn't take up too much space by doing this amazing activity. Yeah. Or, you know, oh, but someone else was better at it. Like, you know, if I tell a kid in session, like, wow, like you worked really hard on that drawing.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Oh, well, so-and-so is a better artist than I am.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

It's like, well, you know, we're we're focusing on you, and like I'm trying to recognize that this is something that is impressive.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Yeah, this piece of art, you know, like honoring this piece of of a drawing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

So there's just this need to like prove that they won't take up too much space, right? Because that wasn't safe in childhood to take up too much space. Yeah. And that they're doing something to deserve it, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Yeah. So like that facet of like I have to earn this or prove this. What about hyperindependence?

Hyperindependence As A Control Strategy

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Because we see that a lot in you know, overgivers, under receivers. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about hyperindependence.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Of like, you know, no, I have to do it by myself, or you know, that's protecting our sense of control.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

And it's also being reflective of it wasn't safe to depend on the adults when I was younger. And so it's not safe for me to depend on anyone else. So receiving is equal to dependence in their minds. Oh, yeah, that's so good. Yeah. Dependence wasn't safe. But it's okay to depend on others. We absolutely need to. We are community beings. We are meant to be in relationships. And I think something you and I talk a lot about is like we heal in relationships. Yes. We don't heal in isolation.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

So true. And I think that's such an important piece of doing that individual work with clients is like helping, especially that overgiver is like, this is not about becoming perfect before you enter a relationship. It's becoming aware of the patterns and the beliefs that you have about yourself so that that extra layer will be healed in a relationship and or in relationship work in therapy, like allowing there to be space for the individuals to not have to change the other, but becoming aware of what challenges they might be bringing so that there's this opportunity to grow. And I think hyperindependence sometimes is like using that as a protective mechanism to be like, you know, if if I can do this better than anybody else or a partner or whatever, then I don't have to necessarily be vulnerable. And we see a lot of like oftentimes these overgiver, under receivers like being hyper hyper-critical of people, you know, like even, you know, like, hey, let me do the dishes. No, no, no, no, I'll do it. I don't like the way you um, you know, you load the dishwasher anyway. Like, even in these spaces where they may be complaining or criticizing or like have grievances, or building like that internal resentment I mentioned earlier. Yes, yes, is really just a protective mechanism to control the vulnerability of having to receive.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Yeah. Yeah. Which is really hard. I mean, and it's hard to like trust that someone else can see you and find you worthy when you don't have that sense of worthiness.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yeah, and I and I think this this stems back to like, you know, as we're building those implicit patterns as children, like what was unfamiliar or uncomfortable became unsafe.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

And so our body starts experience somebody trying to give to us as like, oh no, no, no. Like, resist. You can actually see them kind of be like, oh, like this old thing, like not, you know, or like, no, no, no, I can I can load it, don't, don't worry about it, or I can carry this washing machine up my and because you you actually see the body start constricting because it feels unsafe just because it's unfamiliar. And so when you talk about doing some therapeutic work with children or adults, what are some of the things that you begin with in your therapeutic work to help them to feel safer or safe

Therapy Tools To Build Receiving Muscles

SPEAKER_00 12:11

enough to begin receiving?

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Yeah, I think it varies when I work with kids versus adults, right? And like we talked about earlier, like working with kids, it sometimes is about redirecting to like, oh, this moment, right? Like, oh, but this piece of art is really beautiful. You worked really hard on it. Yeah. And just kind of letting them have a space where it is just about them. Like we don't need to bring in someone else to compare, right? Because that person's not in the room, right? I don't know what their art looks like. So I can't say it is better. I can't say it is better, but being able to like enter their world, yeah. Yeah. Like playing in the games they like, um, letting them talk about the things that really excite them. Yeah. Saying, like, I see you, I don't maybe I don't know about what fandom they're talking about, right? But tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

But like tell me more.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Like I can see that you're so excited about this, yeah, right. Yeah. And just like seeing them in that way is really helpful. But with adults, it's a little more like, hey, well, what would it look like? Yeah. Like, what are you afraid of will happen? Yeah. Right. Um examining those childhood patterns and being like, you know, what role did you have to play in your house?

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yeah. And I think, you know, creating that space of compassionate curiosity is so important from a therapeutic lens when working with these clients because space fundamentally feels unsafe, right? And that's why they so quickly try to move out of it. And so I think from a therapist becoming very curious and compassionate in that, like, no, like this this drawing right now, or you know, this outfit right now, or you know, I think a lot of times, like working with adults, it's you know, allowing them to be vulnerable even in a void, you know. So asking, you know, the clients that might be having grievances, be like, what would be nice to receive in this moment? You know, what would feel good for your partner to say or do or for you to experience in this moment? A lot of times they don't know. They don't, they don't, they don't know. And that is, I think, one of the byproducts of the overgiver under receivers is when there hasn't been any space, there it takes so long to access what that need is. And from a as a therapist, we can really kind of show up and and kind of mirror, you know, I'm sensing that it might feel really good to have permission to feel sad.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Or grieve, or you know, just really kind of helping them see what we're seeing.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Yeah. You know. And sometimes it's about some of that gentle confrontation of like when we reflect something vulnerable that we're noticing.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

I know you'll you see it too, where they really try to quickly move out of it.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

And like gently confronting, like, you know, that was really uncomfortable for you for me to notice that.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Yeah. Right? Oh, absolutely. And and and like witnessing them, you know, like in their grievances and their resentment, right? Like when I hear a client like really just venting, like, and you know, and I, you know, every time their birthday rolls around, I make sure there's this and that, and like what happened on my birthday? All I got was this. And so I'll be like, you know, so it sounds like you really value how considerate you are towards other people. And I'll be like, Yes, I am considerate. So there's that identity, I'm being seen, I'm considerate. And then as a therapist, you're like, I wonder if that's something you would really value somebody else showing up for you in. Yeah. And then they're like, oh, the way I've been giving is actually what I have been trying to receive. And they oftentimes don't put those two together because that's just their automatic, that's their like just unconscious way of navigating survival.

Create Space So Others Can Show Up

SPEAKER_00 16:04

So getting them to like slow down, be safe in space, to recognize, oh, the void, the resentment, the grievance is is actually me trying to give myself what I've always needed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

And sometimes I think it's also about like working with them on pulling back that giving a little bit. So there is space for these other people to step up, right? When we overgive and we put ourselves in that role, yeah, then we also are projecting this idea of, well, I don't need to do things for them, or like they don't need anything. Like or, you know, when someone offers to help 10 times and you say no every time, they're gonna stop offering to help, right? Right, right. And so sometimes it's about, well, what would it look like for you to say no? Actually, I can't help you move this weekend.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Or uh not being the first one at the ready to jump on someone's needs.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Yeah, and I think that like going back to relationships, like really understanding that there's this agreement in a relationship to meet emotional needs. And when we are over functioning or overgiving, we're bypassing the we're bypassing the like words of affirmation, like really speaking appreciation for somebody, you know, we're bypassing the reciprocity that a relationship like is nourished by. And so, you know, if we really are that loving and caring, sometimes the greatest act of love and care is to create space for others to show up, you know, so that they get to be this active participant in the relationship instead of us using our overfunctioning to to kind of keep this barrier to connection.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

And like going back to that example, theoretical example of like the birthday of like if they go all out for everyone else's birthday. But what is the chance that their friends actually said, like, hey, what should we do? Like, it's your birthday, and they said, Oh no, don't worry about it, right? Yeah, it's no big deal. It's no big deal. I don't really like my birthday, right? Yes, because that's being seen in a way, right? That's the attention on us, yes, and that feels unsafe, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:22

So we they want this, but they resist it. Yeah, resist it. Yep, yeah. And so how are we an active participant in this in this pattern and in our own harm, right? Like because ultimately that that venerable part does want connection belonging. It does. Yet the self-saboteur who does not like to feel unsafe or out of control is creating a barrier to that connection. So as a you know, card-carrying, you know, in recovery over over functioner, I can I can totally understand how uncomfortable that space is, but how like beautiful it is to be able to open yourself up to it and become self-aware and then participate in relationships differently. It's really it's a very cathartic way to be, you know, in this world and a part of that cycle that I think, you know, not only intimate relationships, but friendships, work relationships. Like we we need this agreement

Microdosing Worth And A Weekly Challenge

SPEAKER_00 19:20

of reciprocity in order to feel seen, heard, loved, and cared for.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

So yeah, and I think you know, something I kind of ask clients about is like, well, you know, what do you think they see in you? Right. Like maybe you don't have to believe that fully yourself, right? But if I trust my friend with so many of so many things, yeah, can I trust for a moment that they want to give to me?

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Yeah, I don't have to fully believe that I'm worthy, right? But I trust them.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

So just borrowing that trust.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

I love that. Like offering this like moment of like, is it safe enough to to trust or find evidence as to why this friend or this partner would see that worthiness in you? Can you can you see the evidence out there to support that? And just really like microdose them in the discomfort of acknowledging their own worth, you know. So I think that's a great, a great point to use and a great piece to to be able to integrate those that are just now opening up to the discomfort of receiving. So but it's hard. It is hard, yeah. It's very difficult. And you know, you wouldn't expect that to be the case, right? Because I think intellectually we can say, yes, I have these needs and it's it's okay for me to want these, but then our experience, our somatic response to it is that resistance, and that that's your check engine light turning on, saying, Hey, there's something deeper here we need to explore that needs some attention so that we can become more you know fluid and flow within relationships with a lot more comfort and a lot, you know, a lot more positivity and optimism versus grievance and resentment. Like that's a heavy burden to carry.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

And I think that check and light is a good metaphor because that doesn't mean you abandon the car, right? It's got the sticker on the side of the highway. Bye. No, it's a chance to be curious of oh, what is going on here? What does need to be fixed, right? Yes, because again, like we said, it's not unfamiliar is not always unsafe.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Correct, absolutely. Usually it's not. Usually it's not.

unknown 21:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Very few things are are unsafe when we're conscious and aware, you know, we're we're picking up on that before we're actually experiencing it. So great point. Um, anything else you think you can you want to add to our audience or our listeners?

SPEAKER_01 21:51

I would just challenge you guys to kind of think about the ways where you're overgiving and try to say yes to either like a compliment or an act of service, you know, throughout your week of being instead of if someone says, like, you look really nice today, instead of saying, like, oh my goodness, I was running late and I just threw this together, be like, you know, thank you. I tried hard this morning.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

I love that. Yeah. And I usually like to say anger, frustration, bitterness if you're feeling that. Check in and check with yourself, especially if you're an overgive or under receiver. Have I created space for this need to actually be met? Yeah. And oftentimes I, you know, I know for myself, I haven't. Yeah. You know, I've been like, oop, I unconsciously went back into my old patterns. I need to create space, even for myself. Like, did I listen to myself? Did I give myself space to meet this need? So I really give to myself. Exactly. Did I did I even create that space? You know, and that space is so uncomfortable for those that are over giving because it's it's too quiet. So well, I so appreciate the conversation. As always, I love the things that we talk about that end up on the podcast. Um, but I really appreciate your time. If you'd like to learn more about Kaylee, we'll put a link in our bio and of course some of her additional uh podcasts, which are awesome and amazing, and we all enjoy them. So we appreciate you guys listening. Bye for now. We'll see you next time. Thank you.