And Still We Rise

The Comfort Zone Killer: Finding Friends Who Challenge You

Cristine Seidell Season 4 Episode 8

What happens when we step outside our comfortable social bubbles? Licensed Professional Counselor Lauren Buice joins Cristine Seidell to explore how intentionally building diverse friendships transforms not just our communities, but our mental health.

The conversation begins with a crucial reframing – diversity extends far beyond race and gender to include age differences, socioeconomic backgrounds, religious beliefs, and abilities. Lauren explains how staying in homogeneous social groups creates harmful "echo chambers" that reinforce our biases and actually increase our anxiety when confronting differences. Through her touching personal story of living with 80-year-old Glenda, she demonstrates how intergenerational friendships provide unique perspective and wisdom that same-age relationships simply cannot offer.

Using her hand-drawn "Comfort-Stretch-Panic zones" model, Lauren visually illustrates a counterintuitive truth: the more we stay in our comfort zone, the smaller it becomes. By regularly stretching ourselves through diverse connections, we gradually expand what feels comfortable, building cognitive flexibility and resilience that serves us throughout life.

For those feeling overwhelmed by the idea of diversifying their communities, Lauren offers gentle, practical starting points – pursue activities you genuinely enjoy where diverse people naturally gather, engage in volunteer work with a shared purpose, or explore community centers and libraries. She provides a powerful litmus test for authentic intentions: "Am I looking to learn or looking to earn?" Would you still participate if you couldn't tell anyone or post about it?

Perhaps most compelling is Lauren's insight that diverse communities enhance our capacity for processing life's hardest moments. Different cultures and communities offer varied approaches to grief, trauma, and healing. By expanding our circles, we gain access to a wealth of coping tools and wisdom that wouldn't be available in homogeneous groups.

Ready to expand your bubble? Listen now to discover how getting a little uncomfortable might be the best thing for your mental health.

To work with Lauren and or learn more about the work she does, you can find her at:

https://www.risetherapycenter.com/lauren

Or on IG @laurenrisetherapycenter.com

Thank you for tuning into And Still WE Rise! If you would like to learn more about me or the work our practice is doing, feel free to follow us on Instagram at:

@atltherapygirl and @risetherapycenter

Or check us out at www.risetherapycenter.com

Disclaimer: And Still We Rise is meant to provide perspective and meaningful conversations around mental health topics. It is not meant to provide specific therapeutic advise to individuals. If anything in these podcasts resonates, ASWR recommends consulting with your individual therapist or seeking a referral from your primary care physician.

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to In Still we Rise. I'm your host, christine Seidel, and today we have licensed professional counselor Lauren Weiss joining us.

Speaker 2:

Welcome, Lauren. Hey, thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here and dive into this topic.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and actually Lauren is a bit of a veteran when it comes to podcasts, so we will have to link some of the other podcasts.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you.

Speaker 1:

I was just thinking. I was like, oh, this is not her first rodeo.

Speaker 2:

This will be my little side gig. This will be great.

Speaker 1:

Exactly. Well, before we jump into today's topic, I want to read a little information about Lauren so you can know a little bit of her background. So, to begin, lauren Bice is a licensed professional counselor who specializes in working with children, adolescents and their families. With a warm and authentic approach, she helps clients navigate challenges such as anxiety, emotional dysregulation and social skills through the use of art, play and whatever else a kid or teen may need. She has a unique perspective on community well-being, gained from her passion from bringing mental health insights to both schools and faith communities. Her experience with family systems and community dynamics makes her the perfect person to discuss how intentionally building intergenerational and diverse friendships can build and lead to greater empathy, personal growth and a stronger sense of belonging. Welcome, lauren. That is such a perfect topic and I love that you put in that you like to use art and play, because I think we might actually experience a little of that today.

Speaker 2:

Oh goodness, I said I use it. I didn't say I was good at it but, yes, awesome.

Speaker 1:

Well, thanks for being on here and we are, as we heard a little bit in the bio, going to talk about getting out of your bubble and building diverse communities. So, to begin, what does that even mean? You know what are diverse communities? Why is that important? You know, whenever we hear that diverse communities, we usually think of like race or gender. But like, what does that even mean? Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

And, of course, race and gender can certainly be an aspect of diversity, and it's a very important one, but there's a lot of other aspects of diversity that might not be the first thing that comes to your mind. So we're talking about differences in age. That's why I mentioned the intergenerational friendships. It might be socioeconomic status, it could be religious views, it could be differences in abilities and disabilities. Lots of different things are included in the word diversity. So, just to be clear, obviously, diversity when it comes to race, ethnicity very important, that's definitely an aspect of this, but don't think that that's the only thing that this topic is relative to.

Speaker 1:

Very true, absolutely so. When we look at diverse communities, when we look at our own communities that are existing within our lives, why is making it and building it to be wider and more inclusive of those that are different from us so important?

Speaker 2:

more inclusive of those that are different from us. So important? Yeah, absolutely so. It really is human nature to stick with what you know, who you know, and to be at a homogenous group of people that look like you, sound like you, all of these things. And again, while that is maybe natural, it is not always the best for our mental health, for our cognitive flexibility, for our outlooks on life.

Speaker 2:

So what studies have found is that when you really restrict your bubble right, you stay around your group of people. It kind of develops something called an echo chamber. So that is when your biases, your beliefs, are constantly being validated, reinforced. You don't have to face challenges, opposing views, differences, the unknown, and it's just like cool, I'm going to stay in my little bubble. And so then, when things are outside of what you believe, outside of your normal, or just are different and unknown, that creates a big sense of anxiety, fear, defensiveness, and so getting out of your bubble, having more experiences that challenge you and stress you, and learning to roll with those, it creates cognitive flexibility. So that's your ability to go through new events, take on new challenges, without the huge spike of anxiety or defensiveness where we shut down.

Speaker 1:

I think we can. We can see that in our culture, how, like even just a difference in belief or you know, the the big no-no topics like politics, yep, when we, when we're confronted with somebody who believes or has different perspectives from us, there's this automatic sense of like defense or like anxiety around that. So what you're saying is, as we expose ourselves and immerse ourselves into that diversity of, of, of everything that makes us different and unique, we're stretching ourselves to not have that automatic response in the in those moments.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. It really, I think, comes down to you know, we're not trying to create a like a. You have to now change all that you believe. You have to move away from what you were taught. That's not necessarily what this is about. This is about recognizing that it doesn't have to be an us versus them. It doesn't have to be you versus other people. Right, it can be coexisting, it can be collaborating, it can be a lot of things that are more peaceful without you necessarily. Again, we're not sitting here saying, hey, change everything you've ever believed but you can have what you believe and not be biased against other groups of people. You can have what you believe and still respect and have empathy for these other groups.

Speaker 1:

That's a great point. Now I know you specifically really like to champion intergenerational diversity within you know relationships and friendships. So tell me, what's the benefit of intergenerational?

Speaker 2:

Yes, absolutely. So this, this is a personal thing of mine. Back when I moved to a new city for for grad school, for counseling school, I was like, well, who do I know in this city, who can I maybe live with? Cause I didn't want to have to try to work a full-time job and go to school full-time. So I ended up meeting this lady named Glenda. I got her permission to talk about our story. She is really truly like the nearest and dearest person to my heart.

Speaker 2:

So what started out is like, oh, I'll just be here for like a year, maybe two, turned into five because our relationship. I know I lived with her until I got married, but that is because our relationship became just foundational for me and for her. So we went through COVID together, which I don't know how yeah, I don't know how either one of us really would have survived without the other person. That was very, very big for us. And people all the time when I tell them, yeah, I live with this.

Speaker 2:

You know, now she's, she's 80, now you know this 80 year old friend of mine, they're like, oh, you must be so good for her, you must help so much. And I would be like, well, yeah, I do, but no one really understands the impact that she has been able to have on me and the things that I have gotten from her, and so it is not a one way street. And so, yeah, I champion intergenerational friendships and encouraging young people and older people to come together in new ways and coexist and learn from one another, because it is very, very good, just mental health wise, all the way around across generations.

Speaker 1:

I think that's such a cultural thing that needs to be reexamined is that once we reach a certain age, we really don't have anything to offer the community, and you know we treat our older community as if, like, they need to be cared for. So can you give me some examples of like? What did you gain in that relationship? What did you grow and learn from Ms Glenda?

Speaker 2:

Besides lots of baking tips and lots of gardening tips.

Speaker 1:

I tell people maybe I need to hang out with her for a little while, Cause I'm sure I'm in that area.

Speaker 2:

Well, I got. I got a bunch of old lady hobbies, which was honestly wonderful. I know way more about birds than I ever thought I would, but I love it and I guess, big picture, some things that I got from her was a lot of perspective. You know, I'm, you know, a younger person, so I don't have the life experience that she does. She has seen and gone through way more than I have, so when things are really crushing to me or seem really big and insurmountable, she could be very validating about like yeah, I went through that or I went through something similar and I came out on the other side, you know. So her perspective, her wisdom, um, and her resilience to again to see somebody who has gone through challenges in life and is still just one of the happiest, sweetest people I know, was this awakening of like, wow, like I can be that one day.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think that's so important, like, lived experience is such great wisdom and what we experience in one season of life somebody else has navigated through and somebody has learned from that, and as we open up our community to find those people that have more life experience than ourselves, we probably will find some wisdom there, if they too, have been rooted in, you know, opening up their perspective to things. So I think that's something that, as a culture, you know, we really move towards shifting into the value of people's lived experiences and what value and richness they bring. So now, how might the lack of diversity really, you know, impact somebody? You know how can that contribute to mental health struggles or challenges?

Speaker 2:

Oh, absolutely so, one. It really does create a sense of isolation. Even if you have your group, who looks like you, sounds like you, talks like you, all these things, when you stay in your bubble the outside world becomes like a no, no, like a restriction, right, and so we become isolated because there's not enough room for a variance in thought and belief and style and so it's like, okay, well, now I have to kind of fit into this mold. And another thing is when your sense of identity and your validation comes from one source, one people, what happens when that becomes threatened? Right, if you are, your identity is rooted in one group, one belief, one style of things.

Speaker 2:

Anything that challenges that is going to shake you to your core and you're not resilient enough for that if you don't have those outside resources. So we've got isolation, we've got that. We've got obviously bias, right, Like we all are, we all have biases. But then there are dangerous biases, like really harmful biases that exist and those just get reinforced. And again we can point back to, like that fear and defensiveness thing, again too, of experiencing more anxiety, more fear when you stay in your bubble, you don't get out and and challenge yourself and challenge your ways of thinking.

Speaker 1:

I think that's a really good point and I think that you know, to some extent there may even be, you know, a sense of detachment from self. You know, like, if your bubble is so rooted in their core beliefs or their core connections, connections that dissenting from that would be a threat to your sense of belonging, how authentic can you really be with yourself if you do maybe want to challenge that belief or you do want to challenge that bias, like you know how much resilience, like you said, do you have to actually confront the threat of disconnect or a threat, threat of being abandoned or rejected from that community, and if that's a real threat, if there isn't enough diversity, then that there may be a place where people start detaching from themselves and they really can't, you know, process things authentically.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, and I think some one thing to keep in mind that maybe people don't think about is when you stay in your bubble, your bubble is going to get smaller, right? So you're not going to have the same bubble throughout your lifetime, and so if you're not actively getting out of your bubble, stretching it, then it's going to get smaller. And this is where I'm going to introduce the arts and crafts that you referenced earlier in the video.

Speaker 2:

I did not even attempt to get perfectly circular things, because you know what, and I work with kids and maybe I cut, like them too, and it's all about embracing imperfection. So this is my very first attempt at a model called the comfort, stretch and panic zones. This is by Ryan and Markova. We can maybe link something down below as a resource. So here we go. I don't know if everyone can see it. So we've got inner circle this big green dot with the C. This stands for our comfort zone.

Speaker 2:

So when we're talking about our bubble, we're talking about our comfort zone, right? This is where you feel renewed, safe, relaxed, comfortable, all those things. Then we get a little bit further outside and we've got the stretch zone. So this is the yellow zone, right? So this is where we feel excited or nervous or, as I tell my kids, nervous-sided is definitely a word, it's definitely an emotion. This is where we get stretched and challenged. A word, it's definitely an emotion. This is where we get stretched and challenged and this is where we grow. We like to spend time in this yellow section.

Speaker 2:

And then we have the red zone, a panic zone. This is where we are fearful, defensive, shutting down. So when we get into this red zone, then obviously our instinct is to come back into that green zone, and that's something that we have to do, and this is something we experience daily. So kind of what happens, though, when we do not embrace diverse friendships, when we stay in our bubble, is.

Speaker 2:

Here's my second option our little green zone, our comfort zone, gets a lot smaller, so you have less room to move because you're not stretching yourself, and so, look, the red is so much bigger. There's more things that are going to send you into that panic zone, but when we do stretch ourselves, when we exist in this stretch zone, because whenever we're in the stretch zone, eventually those things in our stretch zone are going to move to the green zone. Eventually, those things that were once stretching us are now comfortable, and so we end up having a much bigger green circle, a much bigger comfort zone, and we can exist in a much more rich space, a much more authentic and rich space, where we're not constantly bumping up against the edges of our comfort zone and constantly being thrown into a stretch or a panic zone. So this is my little, sadly not very artistic vision.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's a great visual and I think that, like, especially working with kids, you know, we we regularly tell children, we tell their parents, like, allow your children to be uncomfortable, allow your children to sit in the discomfort and the difficulty of something that is new and different and challenging, and we have to remember we need to do that too. Like that is still something that we need to experience as adults, and community is definitely something that it feels difficult to step into new spaces because of that, sometimes fear of being perceived or fear of lack of similarities, you know, which really ends up kind of becoming a self thing. So, therapeutically, how would you work with somebody who may be really resistant or hesitant to step into spaces of diversity or put themselves out there and get out of their bubble?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so one. I think when we're talking about stepping into spaces of diversity, people automatically go to like really big changes and really big steps. You know, it is not realistic for a lot of people to walk into a building or a community of faith that is not their own, whether that be a synagogue, a mosque or a church. You know that might be too big of a step right.

Speaker 2:

So we are talking about very small steps and the easiest thing I would say to start with is okay, what do you enjoy doing, what activities or interests do you have that you could go out to just the world and find community? So it's kind of like your interests, your passions are what you start with and then, naturally, people are just the byproduct.

Speaker 2:

There are diverse people that are interested in an adult kickball league or Pokemon conventions or a knitting club at the library, which I'm tempted to go to try now, because my library has one, so there are a lot of little pockets, when you look for them, of activity based things that you can go do that again, just kind of naturally, that diversity is going to find you because this world is full of incredible and different people and that's something beautiful. So just find what you'd like to do and then go and do that somewhere different than what you've been doing it before.

Speaker 1:

That is such, you know, like, sometimes like the way to move forward is so simple that it's complicated for people. Yeah, and I think that you know, using that word enjoyment, go find something you genuinely enjoy and see what diverse communities are in that space. Our nervous system actually becomes more regulated and open when we are doing things we enjoy. So our receptivity to the things that may in the past have made us anxious, in that moment, in that enjoyment, our nervous system is already more regulated than it would be if we were like, okay, I'm putting myself out of my bubble into this diverse community. Enjoyment grounds us, you know. So I think that's such a great piece of support is just start with something that you genuinely enjoy and see what opportunities of diversity are in that space. It's like an anchor of grounded support for you.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. And there's also this idea of like. When you find something that you're passionate about, you're feeling like you're contributing to something that's greater than you, you find a sense of purpose. So, volunteer, work, in whatever capacity that you can do, it is also really important because when people, when the collective comes together and has a shared sense of purpose, that is where community thrives. That is where you, as your individual self, feel important, because you're not looking at an achievement. You're not looking at just like what your resume says. It is that people depend on you or you are important to that community, and that's where a lot of these relationships really come together and thrive community and that's where a lot of these relationships really come together and thrive, and I think that's a great point.

Speaker 1:

You are part of the community and the community is part of you. That's a good way of saying it. Yeah, I like that. So that brings up kind of maybe the shadow side of how people might step into community. So how can individuals intentionally create or join communities of diverse spaces without it feeling forced or like performative, like look at me, I'm doing this, that, and the other Like how do we really do that intentionally?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think that word right there intention, intentionally is really what it comes down to is really looking at yourself, doing some self-reflection, maybe somealing, and maybe talking to your therapist about what are your intentions with seeking this out, you know.

Speaker 2:

So something that you can just kind of say to yourself as a little reminder is like am I looking to learn or am I looking to earn? Okay, so, are you coming into this space with open eyes, open heart, looking to learn something from a different group of people or just, you know, have a different experience than your everyday life, or are you looking to earn validation? Are you looking to earn likes on Instagram, like we got to talk about that too Are you looking to earn admiration? So I would ask myself okay, if I never told a single soul about this activity that I'm going to go do with this group of people that I'm becoming friends with, if I never told a single soul, didn't post it on Instagram or brag about it, you know, in a seminar, all these things, would I still do it? Would I still feel like I am being fulfilled and getting and having a sense of purpose in it? Or am I really looking for that external validation?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, really holding space for that self reflection and that self awareness is so key as you go into spaces and sometimes we're not really conscious that that might be something that's being projected in a stepping into communities, you know, and so we can stop and be like, wait a minute. I have been posting this a lot on the social media, so, like, is this really coming from an intentional place or have I let something supersede that? So I think that's a great point Learn versus earn. I love it. Is there anything else you feel like is important to kind of share with our listeners and our viewers about building that community, getting out of your bubble?

Speaker 2:

I think that it is.

Speaker 2:

If something I could just like proclaim to the world is, when you have diverse friendships, diverse relationships, you suddenly have access to a wealth of knowledge and resources that you can't get when you're only in your bubble.

Speaker 2:

So when we're talking about trauma, and then I immediately think of, like grief, the way that people grieve, the way that people heal, is so incredibly complex and there's not a one size fits all option. Every therapist will tell you that, or should tell you that, that there's not one right way to do it. And so when we are have access to all these different kinds of people, we have access to their tools, to their ideas, and, you know, someone from just a different life experience can speak to what you're going through in a different way than your friend that you've known for 10 years. Right, and we need that as humans, I think, to know okay, what, what fits authentically with me, not just because it's what I'm used to, but because there's something about it that speaks to us and I think that it just brings like this human collective experience together in a really beautiful way.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, what a great point. And I think sometimes when we have communities that are too bubble-like and we may experience something that they haven't experienced and it makes them uncomfortable, having more diverse community gives us permission to have that experience unjudged and in a safer place. And I think that point about grief is so relevant that sometimes when our bubble is too small, they're really uncomfortable in that grief. But other cultures and other you know communities understand that that level of grief grief maybe because they have different experiences or different cultural practices around it. So I think that's such such a good point of having wider community gives us permission to have a human experience, even if it's different than our little bubble.

Speaker 1:

You know Exactly so well, I love this conversation. I think it's so relevant to kind of where we are in our world and how easy it is to find people that you can just easily go to and build this bubble around, because there's such, you know, polarizing things that go on in politics and beliefs and all the things. And really one of our greatest gifts is the ability to hold space and keep perspective around different types of communities and it helps us be mentally flexible, it helps grow our comfort zone and ultimately that's what supports us in our most significant mental health. You know experiences through this, so anything else?

Speaker 1:

you'd like to share?

Speaker 2:

You know, I would just tell people get into your stretch zone, go grow, don't just stay in your bubble. Get out of your bubble. Even if it's just one tiny thing that you can do this week, where can you get into that that yellow zone, that stretch zone that we talked about, and see kind of where it goes from there? So go do something that you enjoy, go meet new people, go look at faith communities. You know, faith communities really is a place where, just naturally, people of, say, different ages we're talking about that intergenerational thing. Faith communities, community centers, libraries, things that are community-based really are a good starting point. And go, go get you a Glenda. Or, if you're a Glenda, go get you a Lauren. I think everyone needs a Glenda in their their life. I really truly do. And again, if you are a Glenda and you're listening to this, go find you a Lauren, a younger person, a Christine to you know, share that wisdom, that wisdom with and just seek out that connection.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think I think a great point to add to that is we have to remember not all families look the same, you know. Not all families have an elder that you know they can go to for mentoring. Not all families have children to pass along. You know wisdom and so you know our communities are an extension of our sense of family. So I'm going to go sign up, I'm ready. Great, thank you, lauren.

Speaker 1:

So much for like joining the podcast today and I have to say to all of our listeners and viewers Lauren is awesome. She is such a great therapist and, as you can see, you know, she's so eloquent and articulate in how she shares her own wisdom. So if you would like to work with her, if you would like to invite her to some speaking engagements, we will add a link to the website at the bottom of her bio and you are more than welcome to reach out and see how you and Lauren can partner. Reach out and see how you and Lauren can partner. Thanks for joining today, lauren. Thank you for coming on. As always, I love getting to hear all of your wisdom and all that you have to share, and we look forward to having you again next time.

Speaker 2:

Great, Thank you so much, christine. I really appreciate it. You're welcome, thank you, bye-bye guys, bye.

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