And Still We Rise
The "And Still We Rise" Podcast (formally known as The Ego Project), is hosted by mental health therapist and group practice owner, Cristine Seidell. It is a space where look deeper into our limiting beliefs or behavioral patterns, seek to understand our authentic self and find new and exciting ways to celebrate the radiance we are meant to bring into the word. Through unscripted and unedited conversations with thought-leaders, therapists, spiritualists, and creatives, And Still We Rise explores how childhood wounding and intentional healing impacts our lives.
And Still We Rise
Crafting Your Way Through Life's Messiness with Therapist Kaylee Finlay
We've forgotten how to simply enjoy activities without turning them into a side hustle or productivity metric. In this heartfelt conversation with licensed therapist and "resident crafter" Kaylee Finley, we explore how creative hobbies provide essential nourishment for our mental health and authentic self-expression.
Kaylee shares a profound perspective on why creative pursuits matter beyond their output: "When we engage in fiber arts, we're participating in historic traditions tens of thousands of years old. You're not only making art for your soul and future generations, you're embodying the work of your ancestors." This connection to past, present and future through creativity helps anchor our identity beyond professional roles or relationships.
The discussion delves into why many adults resist playful activities despite their therapeutic benefits. Our achievement-oriented culture conditions us to feel guilty about "unproductive" time, leading to a disconnection from our playful inner child. Even in therapy settings, clients often resist playful regulation techniques until experiencing their effectiveness firsthand. Kaylee emphasizes that creative flow states naturally process emotions our conscious mind might avoid, making hobbies powerful tools for emotional regulation.
For those feeling disconnected from creativity, Kaylee suggests starting with activities you enjoyed as a child—whether coloring, friendship bracelets, or finger painting. The key is approaching these activities with curiosity rather than perfectionism. As she reminds us through her own baking mishaps, even experienced crafters face frustration, but working through these moments teaches valuable life lessons about persistence and acceptance.
Ready to reclaim your right to creative joy? Try reconnecting with a childhood hobby this week and give yourself permission to make a mess without worrying about the cleanup. Your mental health will thank you.
If you would like to learn more about Kaylee and the work she does visit her at: www.risetherapycenter.com/kaylee
You can also find her on IG @brighterskiescounseling
Thank you for tuning into And Still WE Rise! If you would like to learn more about me or the work our practice is doing, feel free to follow us on Instagram at:
@atltherapygirl and @risetherapycenter
Or check us out at www.risetherapycenter.com
Disclaimer: And Still We Rise is meant to provide perspective and meaningful conversations around mental health topics. It is not meant to provide specific therapeutic advise to individuals. If anything in these podcasts resonates, ASWR recommends consulting with your individual therapist or seeking a referral from your primary care physician.
Hello and welcome to, and Still we Rise. I am your host, christine Seidel, and today we have licensed therapist Kaylee Finley to talk about hobbies. Welcome, kaylee.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'm so excited. This is one of my favorite things to talk about because it's so important to who I am in my life, both in the counseling office and outside, so I'm excited to talk about this.
Speaker 1:Well, I am beyond excited to have you here. And for those of you that don't know, kaylee is a therapist at Rise Therapy Center and she is our not only our resident crafter, but resident baker. Not even a competition there. She holds that title. Nobody meets with it. So she is the perfect person to come today and kind of share you know, not only her experience with the creatives, but also just how that helps therapeutically and in our self-care. So before we get started, I'd love to read a little bio about Kaylee, and I'll add this in our description as well.
Speaker 1:Kaylee is an associate professional counselor and self-proclaimed crafting enthusiast. Both counseling and crafting have been an integral part of her life and she has found each one benefits the other. Kaylee works with children, teens and adults in her counseling and always makes a point to check in with them about what they do for fun, as this is such an overlooked part of mental health, wellness, such good stuff and as a witness to her work, I can tell you her clients definitely get to have some fun throughout their sessions. So, yeah, well, let's get to it. So, like hobbies I mean that's, that covers a whole spectrum of things. So tell me you know, how are hobbies so useful in shaping our sense of identity and how we feel about ourselves and the emotional processing yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2:So, like, when we talk about hobbies, there's people who like break it down into like the different types of hobbies of like you need a hobby for your like physical health, for like your creative self, to like make money, which I don't necessarily agree with that, but we can go into that later. But, um, you know, for me I just kind of think of hobbies as something you do that just for the sake of bringing you joy. It's not something that should be pressured, it's something that should just be pure enjoyment and like creativity based, or like just something that should be pressured. It's something that should just be pure enjoyment and like creativity based, or like just something that you do for yourself, without expectation. And I think that's so important, because we have so many things that are expected of us in our day-to-day life, right, and we have to do those things. But when we pour all of our identity into these, into either our work or even our relationships with other people, we can lose who we are outside of just serving someone else.
Speaker 2:Um, and I think hobbies are really good because it gets you back to like your sense of individuality, because my, even if I'm just following like a crochet pattern that someone else wrote. If I do it and if my friend does it, they're going to be a little different, just because we might hold our yarn tension a little different, so the size might be a little different, or I mess up in some way that she doesn't, or she messes up in some way I do or I don't. But that is what makes it unique, because only you can make the thing, only you can do that hobby in the way that you're going to do it such a very important point to make is it's really like an authentic expression of self.
Speaker 1:no matter how you do it or how you try to do it, it is going to come out as like you, in whatever way that is, and it's going to be unique and different and from somebody else who may be doing the exact same thing. So you know how does how do hobbies help us reconnect with ourselves? You know why are they important in that aspect?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I think you know, obviously we can't ever exist in a vacuum, right? And hobbies are the same of like. There will always be other people who do the same hobby or have done it. And for me, I think the way that hobbies like help us connect with ourselves is through the fact that it's connecting with other people too, in a way. And there's like this quote I found years ago that really struck me when we engage in this is talking specifically about fiber arts, but I think it can be applied to a lot of different hobbies. When we engage in fiber arts, we are creating something, but we're also participating in historic traditions tens of thousands of years old. You are not only making art for your soul and for future generations, you are embodying the work of your ancestors. So it's this way of combining, like the past, present and future, which we know are all things that shape who we are, and it's a way to feel connected. And through those connections with you know ancestors or future generations, we shape who we are too.
Speaker 1:we shape who we are too. Yeah, wow, I mean, I think that that's, that's even something that, like I haven't even thought about is, like you know especially talking about that quote from the fiber arts that so many of these hobbies have been things that generations whether they're our ancestors or from a cultural perspective have done. That when we're doing it in the moment, it's almost like we're participating in that, like collective of people that are present in that moment and then will be present with others in the future when they do that too, which I think, is something that's lost when we're constantly in this, you know, being productive, doing things that benefit us.
Speaker 1:There's really no connection to the here and now, which actually connects us to those that have and those that will, and I think that's a really beautiful thing to be conscious of in so many ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's for me a big part of my story and how I got started like with crafting of um, back when I was in like elementary school and my grandmother passed away, my aunt gave me her knitting needles and obviously in elementary school I didn't I wasn't into that yet or anything but uh, and it took a few years for me to get into it, but just like having that tradition passed down, and eventually I used specifically and intentionally I used her needles to create a baby blanket for my first nephew, and so it was a really beautiful way of just like even if only I ever knew that I did that. I mean, I told my sister and obviously I'm saying it now, but even if only I had known that that was like a significant like way of connecting, like the generations. And you know, when we get lost in this like productivity state, we are losing sight of the past and the future, and so it's almost like through doing these hobbies and engaging in the present, we're engaging in a bigger picture too.
Speaker 1:Wow. And so it's almost like that in and of itself kind of removes the need for it to be productive, because we're really connecting with something greater than productivity or greater than you know making money off of it for it. Being for something, it's other than just. It means more of just like being with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's been a really interesting thing of you know this balance between what is your hobby versus what is a like job. And there are people who like, when I show them my work I do, their first reaction is like you could sell this and like it's so well-intentioned and I know it's a compliment, but it also is like but that's not the purpose, Because it's just. Even if I were to make things only for myself, if someone were a wonderful artist but they hid their notebooks away and didn't let anyone see them, that's okay. Yeah, it can be just for you and like I choose with my crafts and stuff. It's usually stuff I make for other people or you know, because I know these people will value it and it's a way I show love and affection and pour myself into something and that's a testament to like the love I have in those relationships. But even if someone is to create and they never tell anyone about that hobby, that's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that that brings up another question. So, like when you have a client who maybe is, like, really into drawing, let's say, for instance, but doesn't want to share it with people, like, what benefit does that client get to still participating in that hobby, doing it regularly? Like, what is the therapeutic or benefit to the nervous system or the emotional processing? What do hobbies or creative outlets do for us in our self-work or in our therapeutic work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it gives us, like, a sense of purpose and identity and it also, like, builds our self-esteem of like.
Speaker 2:If this is something we learn to do, like so many of these things, it takes time to learn how to do them and it's usually at least in my experience tears and frustration and tearing up a paper, ripping things out, and you know, that alone teaches us so much about ourselves. But it's also that you know our feelings are going to come out when they're going to come out right. And if you're, if someone doesn't want to show anyone that but they're drawing and they're getting super frustrated, but it's something they've done a thousand times, maybe that frustration is about something else, right, and it's going to, it's going to come out right. And so, just engaging in those practices that allow us to connect to ourselves in the moment, that is the prime time for our feelings to be like, hey, I'm here, I need to be seen, and if you're going to try to like, mindlessly engage in something, yeah, but it's creative and it's regulating us, those feelings are going to come up right, and so it can be a tool for our body to like, talk to us.
Speaker 1:I think that's like spot on.
Speaker 1:It's like, I think, like when you're crocheting or when somebody goes into drawing or goes into painting, you know they get into that for more than five, 10 minutes, right, like those five or 10 minutes, maybe a lot of chatter, it might be a lot of like things from the day, that's there.
Speaker 1:But then when you get into that flow of the looping and the hooking or the strokes or the drawing, all of a sudden that's like a beautiful form of meditation where you're no longer kind of looping through the thoughts and the feelings of the day and they can come and they can go.
Speaker 1:And I think that's something that we don't, you know, when we're in, for our bodies to be still for that processing, for, for that settling of of the nervous system, to get to a place of flow which I think creative outlets, hobbies, gardening, all of those things ultimately put you into flow and your nervous system is able to process them in such an appropriate way, versus fighting them throughout the day or even fighting them as you start to get into your hobby or starting to get into your project. You know, like how many times are we like um, I really don't want to do this today. It was awful yesterday. I know I experienced that, that with my you know daughter this week. I'm just like this is so hard, but like the tenacity of moving through that difficulty too is such a lesson.
Speaker 2:So it is it is, and I think that's like one of those benefits of where we can both find this balance of. You know, we don't have to be good at what we do and, like I cannot draw to save my life, right, like I I use it as a joke with clients, especially like teens, who I talked to about like not being good at something or just like when we have to like accept our limits or you know, maybe if I really challenged myself and really spent the time, I could get better at drawing. But it's not a priority for me and that's okay. So I'll even jokingly be like, you know, let me draw this bird and like, am I good at this? Like no, that's okay, I can laugh at that, right, yeah, but if I enjoy doing little doodles sometimes and they're awful, okay, but I enjoy it, right, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:And I think that's what hobbies can teach us so much, and especially for, like, our inner child, where we're not good at something right away, or like if it doesn't feel like something we can show off to someone else and get praise, it doesn't. It hurts. But why does it hurt, right? Why does it hurt when it makes us happy, like if we're having fun in that moment? Why do we step back and say this isn't good and it hurts us?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you know, as an inner child therapist that being my you know modality and philosophy I think it's a great way to come back to that younger part, to hear what is the story that's kind of playing out in something that should be, you know, just fun and it should be innocent and it should be. And so what is that in our dialogue that's coming out? That maybe not, maybe I mean, I know it's a hundred percent is but maybe playing out in other areas of your life, and so I think that that's also a beautiful place to kind of reclaim your inner child and find places and spaces to to speak kindness around, like how that part of you shows up in the world. Seek kindness around, like how that part of you shows up in the world, especially around things that just get to be fun and nourishing for you and not necessarily productive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, I think that's something that the world is learning a lot more, and we were talking about this briefly before this.
Speaker 2:We've started recording of. Like COVID was, of course, awful in so many ways, but we were stuck at home and people started to realize like I don't know what to do with myself when I have true downtime and when I'm just like alone with myself, Because we never really let ourselves be alone with ourself and I know that's something I struggle with too of even when I'm knitting or crocheting or baking, I want to have a podcast on, I want to have the TV on and like that's okay sometimes, but you also need to be able to sit with yourself. But my point being, like COVID made us sit with ourselves so much and we realized that so many people realize like if I'm not at work or if I'm not out serving someone else, I don't know what to do with myself. That's where people started baking sourdough and like started crocheting, became a big thing I saw a lot of and because people realize like, oh, I don't have an identity outside of work wow that, that just hit so hard.
Speaker 2:Right? Because, like, even when I like introduce myself to people, it's like if someone asked me like who's Kaylee? I will say I'm a therapist because and I love that that's been my calling for since I was in middle school but I'm also that is not also only who I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know that's something that you know the listeners or the viewers don't know. We were actually at a conference all together a few weeks ago and you know, something I became very conscious of is like us spending time outside of work. You know, we found all these ways to reconnect but I found myself still talking so much about therapeutic perspectives and you know, like of course we're at a conference of a bunch of therapists that we're all analyzing each other. You know, like they gave and shared, like on our group chat, when we came back, I was like I need a hobby, like it's so hard for me to step out of even being in fun and connecting, still having this narrative of what I do. And that was very eyeopening. And I went with my daughter this this past week to Michael's and we were walking up and down the aisles because she wanted to start crocheting, which was part of our tears this week.
Speaker 2:But I've been there. Yeah, I've been there.
Speaker 1:And I was walking up and down the hall, the aisles, and I was having a really hard time trying to figure out what I would want to do, like what I would like to do just to, like you know, go into a creative space, color, paint, whatever it was. And it was that experience at the conference and that experience with her at Michael's that I realized I have got to find a time and a space that I really do step back into, not doing or producing or serving or giving, and just be with myself through the creative arts or play or whatever. Yeah, it just it really. It shocked me me, because it probably is something that comes from a place of I feel guilty if I do that. So why do people feel guilty taking time to indulge in hobbies and spend time curating hobbies for themselves?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we, our society, just values like productivity so much and just like the ways like you make money right, and I think that goes back to like when I show people things, it's oh, like you could sell that, it's like okay, I could, but also that may take the joy out of it. And so I think I think we've gotten into this idea that, um, there was this movement of like self-care isn't selfish, right, or like doing something for yourself isn't selfish, and I think that was really like talked about. But I don't know if people have really internalized that Like. And it's hard to when the society we live in like doesn't the nine to five life doesn't really fuel space, because people come home so mentally drained and have all these other responsibilities that you know, saying no to doing something else, or well, I could be using my time to read like do something that's productive, that I can show for my like growth and value. Um, but we don't have to be productive to be valuable and oh, wow, like we can just be, and that's so uncomfortable because we want to prove ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's that's the big thing. Because we want to prove ourselves. Yeah, I think that's the big thing and we want to prove ourselves. And one way we prove ourselves in this world is like, how do I make money? Like how much money can I make? How can I contribute to? Like everything else, but how do you contribute to yourself?
Speaker 1:And I think that goes back to. You know, we had a podcast a few episodes ago that talked about achievement culture, and I and I think that you know really what that boils down to is, what do I have to show for what I've been investing time into? And I think that, for hobbies, that, in and of itself, I think that's why people struggle. Sometimes they're like, oh, I really love doing this, I'm really good at this hobby, I should sell it or I should show it to people, because we're still looking for that external validation that we're valuable. But, like you just said, we don't have to be productive to have value in this world, and so I think that's such a difficult threshold for our culture to cross over, because we've been kind of conditioned since childhood to be productive.
Speaker 1:And even I know, when I work with adults and I'm, you know, really trying to help them with ways to regulate their nervous system, all of these like strategies we can use for nervous system regulation. But I have a whole set of playful ones. Yeah, playful that they're usually like no, like it doesn't seem big right, like it's gonna. It's gonna regulate the nervous system. Sometimes those even more so than than the other ones. But when they see the playful ones, there's automatically this feeling like those aren't going to work. Interestingly enough, the majority of them come back and say, actually I love those, those were so fun, I prefer those. But there's just something about being in a place of like play that you'll like isn't going to be helpful or productive, even when we're wanting to like, regulate and calm our nervous system. So it's interesting our our aversion to it because of the conditioning of achievement and productivity.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think so much of it, yeah, I think, goes back to that and goes back to that like achievement culture being taught early on and also that, like you know, for so many of us who have childhood wounds where we were taught, taught we had to grow up faster. So even in childhood we couldn't fully connect with being a child, and so now as an adult, that childhood state wasn't safe. So we don't want to go into those playful states because that also wasn't safe. But actually what we can do and of course you know this is reparent ourself and reclaim that childhood part and let it have the experience we deserve to have as children that we didn't get to have. And so so, yeah, for Let yourself be a child and finger paint get messy.
Speaker 2:Like you know, I feel like so much of it is when I see kids even and we're doing glitter or all that they get concerned about cleaning it up. No, you get to be messy in here, that's okay, that's so fun. Isn't it fun to go jump in a mud puddle and get messy, right, like that's what our inner child wants. But we're even taught as kids like to be concerned about the. What am I looking for? Sorry, my word lost me. The like, like consequences, the consequence or like the adult impact or inconvenience yeah there it is, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's inconvenient for to clean up stuff, okay, so yeah right, so so we clean up that, that's fine, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'd rather have take my 10 minutes between sessions to be cleaning up glitter and like letting the kids be messy than being like no, as an adult it makes me uncomfortable or it's a little inconvenient for me. So you don't get to be a kid and be messy for me. So you don't get to be a kid and be messy. And so when we engage in these hobbies and let ourselves just be messy in the process and like do that glitter painting or whatever right, or make those cookies and get flour over the entire kitchen, which I do- but we get the benefits of that.
Speaker 1:You bring those to the office.
Speaker 2:Yes and yeah. Later I have to deal with the inconvenience of cleaning it up, but, oh my gosh, I had fun while I was doing it and that's so much more valuable than the inconvenience of cleaning it up.
Speaker 1:I think that's such a great point. And you know, something I often tell my clients is you know, childhood in and of itself is chaotic. Play is chaotic. You know, we make messes when we play. We, you know, are loud when we play sometimes but it comes from such an innocent place that, like really building tolerance for the messiness is is helping you pull more of that innocent part of you out that sometimes wasn't allowed to be playful because of the chaos it created for the adults. So I think that's such a beautiful part of reconnecting to hobbies because it does help us reparent ourselves, it helps us attend to that in our child that maybe wasn't allowed to have a little chaos from a very innocent place but that does have permission now in in our adults. So you know, just like we have people who might be like adverse to hobbies, how do we kind of navigate? You know, not using hobbies to necessarily numb out or avoid life using hobbies to necessarily numb out or avoid life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's a hard one, because I think it kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier of like you can try to do that, but at some point you're naturally going to get into that flow state and you're naturally going to like explode over.
Speaker 2:Maybe, you know, you ran out of a marker ink or you ran out of an ingredient, or I had to pull a row out, and when I have a big reaction to that, well, that's telling me something, right. So I think our bodies are so good at, you know, we try to think we're smarter than our bodies, right, like we try to think. Yeah, we try, and we are like, well, if I just distract myself enough, then I won't ever have to think about this, but our feelings are going to be heard right one way or another. Yeah, and we can either one way or another. Yeah, and we can either carve out space and intentionally engage with that, or it's going to be the Coke bottle explosion that we do with kids, where it it comes out Right, and so we I think, yeah, you can try to mindlessly engage in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's going to come out. I think that's an. I think that's an awesome point is that you know if you're using it as avoidance, you're probably not actually engaging in it as it's supposed to be used. So I think that's same thing with, like meditation Meditation won't work if you don't actually engage with it, If you kind of?
Speaker 1:avoid it, or you do it for five minutes and you're done and same thing with avoid it. Or you do it for five minutes, or you're done and same thing with with play or hobbies. You have to actually engage with it and if you do, it's going to process through what you need to process through and it won't be able to be a place of avoidance. So I think that's reassuring that anybody who's you know, not, you know, or maybe avoiding hobbies because they're like, oh I, you know, I don't want to get lost in them, I have a very addictive personality Just, you know, being very, you know, clear that engage with them in the way that they're meant to be engaged with and it'll do its job, so to speak goes with this idea of like if someone's struggling to find joy, right.
Speaker 2:If you're in a depressed state and you're struggling to find joy, just try and even if that joy doesn't come right away, it will right. And I think that's the same with that, those hobbies in that like mindlessly engaging. Like you know, sometimes we do want to turn off our minds for a little bit, and that's okay, but eventually you're going to connect, you're going to find the joy and you can ride that wave, right yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:so if somebody like myself, like I was telling you, was walking up and down the aisles of their local craft store trying to decipher, you know, just just because they have been in a work mindset or have had a lot of tasks or stressful situations pulling at them, how would you recommend somebody kind of get started and reconnecting with a hobby, if they just are really feeling a little disconnected from even just stepping into anything? Where would be a good place to start?
Speaker 2:I think it goes to looking at like what you did when you were a kid, like, were you really into like coloring? So get some markers and a coloring book they don't have to be expensive things or if you were really into making the friendship bracelets, make the friendship bracelets again and use these as a starting point and then you're gonna see like, oh, I really like this aspect of it, but I don't like that. So maybe I wanna try to do beads instead. Or maybe I like the markers but I don't like this type of coloring book. So let me try something else. And just being like curious and starting from what you liked as a kid and allowing yourself to open up to other things.
Speaker 1:I think that's perfect. I think just starting from a place of curiosity, and it's like one memory you recall from camp and you're like, I loved doing that. Or I remember in school I loved coloring, just really tapping into that one thing, and it doesn't have to be a huge investment, I'm sure, but just a way to get reattuned to that part and it will naturally guide you.
Speaker 2:And what most people, if they're like me, will find is that collecting hobbies becomes a hobby in of itself.
Speaker 1:That's so true, but you know, like as much as this is not the message we're giving to people, you are really really good at at the creatives and you know, in speaking with you this this last week, you shared a little bit of how difficult it was for you to get started in some of them, but it was part of your own therapeutic process to keep, you know, keep trying, keep coming back to it to to show that you can hard things and I'm sure that's part of like even just your own self growth. Um, that you know Kaylee has indulged in in her creatives and and grown immensely in them, but that wasn't where she was and that wasn't her intention in doing them. But that, as you continue, you do become more proficient in it and it does become such a beautiful thing that you share with others.
Speaker 2:So yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:And it's something where you know. I also want to remind everyone, like, as long as I've been doing some of these things like the mess up still happen, happen and the frustration still happens. I was making cookies this past weekend. One of our coworkers had sent me a recipe that she wanted me to try and it said they're sugar cookies. And I made them and they did not have the sugar cookie texture, got so stubborn and so determined and ran to the grocery store too many times to get more ingredients because I was like no, they have to be right, because something's wrong. And those moments like are so just like frustrating, but also so therapeutic of like come on, kaylee, like I can let go of this. Right, at some point I got to release that. Maybe the recipe was wrong, maybe I'm having an off day, but that's okay, right and so even uncomfortable for me that following these directions didn't result in the outcome I expected. And then how can I release that when it's just not helpful to go to Publix for the fifth time?
Speaker 1:When I am no longer in joy over the years.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And also you know being able to be transparent and say you know what? I tried the recipe. It didn't turn out right, but I did.
Speaker 2:you know I'd love to make banana bread or something for you all yeah, yeah, I ended up bringing them in anyway and just being like they didn't turn out how I wanted, but oh well, and everyone was like, oh, but I like them how they are and stuff, and just remembering that we're always harder on ourselves, it was still fun and frustrating and those two things can exist at the same time, and I think that's where people can get discouraged with hobbies, but I encourage people to ride that wave.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's such a good message. Well, this has been such a sweet, like joyful podcast in itself. Even the topics of frustration we were able to move through pretty quickly and list a minute. So I think that's just such a testimony to reconnecting with those hobbies that bring us joy, that bring us, you know, groundedness and spaces of flow and and care. So is there anything you would like to share with our listeners or viewers? Any additional tidbits?
Speaker 2:I don't think so. I would just encourage everyone, if they listen to this, to think about something they liked as a kid and try to let themselves do it. And try to let yourself find a way to make a mess this week and let yourself be messy.
Speaker 1:I love that Absolutely. Well, thank you, kaylee, for coming on today. And Kaylee works with a lot of kids, teens, adults in a very playful space and really helping them reconnect to that part of them that is so valuable, without having to be productive, and you know she's. She brings such a ray of sunshine, not only through her baked goods and her crafts, but just through her warm and inviting energy. So if you would like to work with Kaylee or you would like to talk to her more about how to do some of the self-work through hobbies and through childlike play, we will carry all of her contact, information, socials and where you can find her and schedule a time with her to do some work with her. So thank you, kaylee, for joining us and we look forward to talking to you soon.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Welcome, Take care everybody.
