And Still We Rise
The "And Still We Rise" Podcast (formally known as The Ego Project), is hosted by mental health therapist and group practice owner, Cristine Seidell. It is a space where look deeper into our limiting beliefs or behavioral patterns, seek to understand our authentic self and find new and exciting ways to celebrate the radiance we are meant to bring into the word. Through unscripted and unedited conversations with thought-leaders, therapists, spiritualists, and creatives, And Still We Rise explores how childhood wounding and intentional healing impacts our lives.
And Still We Rise
You Are More Than What You Do: Finding Identity Beyond Performance
What happens when your entire sense of self becomes tied to what you achieve rather than who you are? And Still We Rise invites therapist, Madison Reed, to explore the hidden dangers of performance-based identity – a phenomenon affecting people of all ages and backgrounds, not just high-achievers.
Madison reveals how this identity crisis manifests when we derive our worth primarily from external validation, achievements, and roles rather than intrinsic qualities. Whether it's through academic success, career advancement, or even family roles, performance-based identity creates a fragile foundation that can collapse when we inevitably face setbacks.
This episode examines how the achievement mindset often begins in childhood through well-intentioned praise focused on achievements rather than character, then amplified through society's expectations and social media's highlight reels. Madison shares insights from her clinical work, noting approximately 75% of her clients struggle with some form of this issue, from "gifted kid burnout" to full-blown midlife crises.
We explore practical strategies for rediscovering authentic identity, including grounding techniques, finding "comfort people" who see beyond your achievements, and reconnecting with core values through meaningful self-reflection and exploration. Madison emphasizes that overcoming performance-based identity isn't about abandoning ambition, but rather finding purpose aligned with your authentic self.
The most powerful revelation? What most people truly desire isn't achievement itself, but the feelings of peace, love, and freedom they believe achievement will bring. By focusing directly on these core needs through authenticity rather than performance, we can create lives that feel meaningful regardless of external metrics of success.
Enjoy this episode and check out Madison at
https://www.risetherapycenter.com/madison
If you would like to work with Madison, email us at
info@risetherapycenter.com
Thank you for tuning into And Still WE Rise! If you would like to learn more about me or the work our practice is doing, feel free to follow us on Instagram at:
@atltherapygirl and @risetherapycenter
Or check us out at www.risetherapycenter.com
Disclaimer: And Still We Rise is meant to provide perspective and meaningful conversations around mental health topics. It is not meant to provide specific therapeutic advise to individuals. If anything in these podcasts resonates, ASWR recommends consulting with your individual therapist or seeking a referral from your primary care physician.
Welcome to, and Still we Rise. I'm your host, christine Seidel, and today we have therapist Madison Reed joining us. Hello, madison, hi, how's it going? It's great. Thank you for joining us.
Cristine Seidell:Today, madison is going to be talking about performance-based identity, which is such an important topic, I think you know in terms of. I know we hear that a lot of times for kids that are in school, but it's interesting how I think that's popping up in terms of. I know we hear that a lot of times for kids that are in school, but it's interesting how I think that's popping up in a lot of adults today that haven't really addressed some of those issues from the past. That's still kind of creeping in. So super excited to get into that topic with you and before we get started, I would love to read a bio about you, if that's okay. Absolutely Awesome.
Cristine Seidell:Madison Reed is a therapist with Rise Therapy Center that is passionate about helping people navigate anxiety, build emotional resilience and discover who they are beyond the roles they play.
Cristine Seidell:In her work, she guides individuals through the process of shedding expectations, whether from family, society or themselves, to build an identity that feels authentic and grounded. I love that Madison believes overcoming anxiety and creating resiliency isn't about perfection or performance, but learning to trust yourself and face uncomfortable moments with curiosity, building the tolerance needed to grow through life's challenges. Amazing bio and full disclaimer. I get to brag a little bit that I got to be a part of Madison's learning experience and emerging into the beautiful therapist that she is today, as we've been able to work alongside each other for the last couple of years. So I'm super excited to have this talk with you and share it with our listeners years. So I'm super excited to have this talk with you and share it with our listeners. So, with that being said, like let's get in it All right, let's do it All right. So tell, tell us and tell the listeners a little bit about what is performance-based identity, what does that mean and how does it kind of affect somebody's sense of self?
Madison Reed:Yeah, it's a bit of a phenomenon. I think I'm seeing a lot right now. I would say probably 75% of my clients have some version of this and it's all ages, it's not just kids, which I think it's often kind of attached to and kind of how I describe it is who you are is what you do, not the characteristics that make up that sense of self.
Madison Reed:So, I think you find this a lot in different things, like school or your job or sports, but I even think go to more of a societal aspect of what it means to be a woman and to be a sister or to be a daughter, or to be even a version of a friend in a specific type of group, and it's overall just this performing a sense of self rather than leading with more of that integrity and that more moral compass and some of those like personality traits.
Cristine Seidell:Which I mean, if you put it into that scope, I mean even the identities that we hold within the structure of a family, you know, like sister or daughter, like how much of that is influenced through performance. You know we can honestly say, okay, yeah, like, maybe in school and maybe in work, like we're super like focused on our identity being attributed to performance, but those identities that we feel are so organic to who we are are how much of that identity is rooted in performance and achievement and what, what we're actually doing versus who we really are. So that is the scope of. I think something that we haven't really talked much about is is the spectrum of performance identity through all of the different titles and labels that we carry so interesting. So how did this kind of come up, so to speak? It's like, what did you start noticing?
Madison Reed:I think right, one of my favorite interventions is the values card sort, and I do that often with different people, just as a good introductory of like tell me who you are, beyond like some of these basic facts. And it's an activity that a lot of people really struggle with. They can put a value of like I value art, right, but when I ask why it's like, oh well, because I paint or it's just something I enjoy, right, but like, why? Like? Why does that light you up? And just a bit of a detachment between, like even these values and these things that are supposed to be these guiders in life, but not a real motivator behind it.
Madison Reed:And I think, as I like kind of started to notice that I also randomly get a bunch of very school avoidant teens and a lot of very burnout college kids. And I think, as I started to unpack, that it was because they had put so much pressure on this thing. And as soon as life got a little hard and school or just life in general got harder to maintain, because the expectations grew or even just the challenges got harder, it was instead of this idea of okay, well, that stinks, I got this F or I'm struggling to adapt Like let me try again, let me do better. It was I'm the worst, I'm not enough, who am I, where do I go from here? And it created this bit of burnout aspect where like kind of turned into a bit of depression too, where it's like I can't get out of bed because what am I? What do I do now that I don't have this thing? That has been my sense of self for this whole time.
Cristine Seidell:Yeah, I love that you say you know if they, you know, fail a test or something, rather than being able to look at it and say, okay, there's learning for me to evolve in or there's a place where I can grow in my learning, there's material I still need to understand and absorb it was I'm a failure. And I think we see that like there's this, you know, extreme thinking of like I'm the best or I'm a failure, and so I think that that lens of like when you get feedback that it's not the best, that it's just an opportunity to learn. But I think so many of our clients still have that very extreme thinking. And I love the values card store.
Cristine Seidell:I think you actually brought that in supervision a couple of years ago and it was kind of new to me and I love using that with clients too, specifically because you can also see like when they get a value and it's almost like they feel like they should value this, like it's a projection from their families or their or their peers or whatever. Like I should value this, but like actually kind of don't. But you see kind of that grappling with it because of that. I guess maybe what you said detachment of like their own sense of agency when it comes to values and how they show up with integrity within that. So tell me, how does like, how does society, or like, of course, as we all know, like social media, all the things that are in front of us constantly, you know how does that influence? Like the shaping of a performance based identity?
Madison Reed:So a lot of performance-based identities, I think, come a lot from childhood and it comes naturally. It's not even at fault of parents most of the time, but the tangible things to praise a kid on are the things that they do. The first really like yay is a word or walking, and then it kind of just gets worse from there. It's you do sports and you have a whole team cheering you on and you get all of this kind of positive feedback and that is rewarding. So that's where that investment kind of comes from. Rather than complimenting something like oh, you're so creative, it's like wow, that picture is awesome.
Cristine Seidell:Yeah, like it's kind of a characteristic of what you embody. It's more of like what is the result of what you did?
Madison Reed:Yeah, and I think social media kind of continues that trend. It's all about posting what you are doing, right? If I go on this awesome hike, I'm going to post it and rather than somebody seeing like, oh, she loves nature and being outdoors, and be like, oh my gosh, she did a seven mile hike, like that's crazy, and it just continues on, as well as kind of broadening your scope of what you should be doing when that isn't grounded in even that person's sense of self, it's fakeness. But now my expectations, my performance, my role is shifting and changing over to something that is not even a real thing that brought that person to that place right.
Cristine Seidell:So, again, like, social media is the highlights of our life, so to speak. Here's my seven mile hike. But like I didn't start with a seven mile hike, I started with struggling with a mile right, and I think that is kind of, you know, something we have to be really intentional about as people who you know receive content and also people who put out content. It's not just about the doing or the ultimate achievement, it's about the process and the journey. And you know that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that brings up a lot of stuff like, rooted in childhood too. You know, if you're always kind of rewarded for whatever the end result is, how do you learn about yourself through that process and through that journey?
Cristine Seidell:And I was thinking about parents.
Cristine Seidell:Even, like, sometimes parents aren't really conscientious of how they're posting their children and their achievements.
Cristine Seidell:You know that they really don't have agency.
Cristine Seidell:You know, at seven, eight years old, to want their like accomplishments posted out in social media.
Cristine Seidell:So as they get to an age where they are on social media and they go back and look and they're like, oh, look at all the things that were posted about me were about the things I was doing and not like you know that I was being weird in the ocean because I, you know I'm a kid and like that's just part of being a. I was being weird in the ocean because I, you know I'm a kid and like that's just part of being being a kid is being weird, and so I think even sometimes, without even just receiving that projection, we can get into older ages and look back and be like, oh wow, like I was really celebrated on the things that I was accomplishing and performing, but not necessarily how I was being. So, you know, that's something I think parents can be conscientious of too. Around you know how, how they are kind of priming their child without them really having the agency to be able to, to have a say so in that.
Madison Reed:So tell me like.
Cristine Seidell:So you know, not that we want to go from one end of the spectrum to the other, but let's so. How do we like? How do we develop a sense of like, confidence and motivation and drive to do things without getting rooted in this like performance based identity?
Madison Reed:Yeah, I think if that is something that you are struggling with a good kind of way to deconstruct, it is always kind of that. First step is being more aware of what that thought process is, and I think, for performance-based identity specifically, you'll see that in criticism, right. So if at your job it's like this note from your boss, are you overthinking, are you taking it home and you're like, oh, what could I have done differently, what should I've done? But like, and kind of really getting stuck in that place and with a kind of negative note to it, that's probably because, right, that sense of self is kind of being tarnished a little bit. So once you kind of start noticing those, it's just got to add a little bit of weight to the other side of the scale, because what happens is, if we let these thoughts kind of just keep going, that sense of self not only is not allowing itself to kind of come to light, but it's also like, oh, okay, well, that's okay. Like I'll just stay down here, don't mind me. So just adding a little bit of that confrontation to it where it's like well, okay, like I know we're freaking out about this right now, but this is part of it. Like I'm growing, I'm learning and that's okay and this has nothing to do with me just to fight it, as well as give that sense of self a bit of that empowerment and being like, okay, yeah, like we're being seen, we're being noticed. Now I can feel more comfortable, maybe coming out in a different way. So I think that's kind of like the biggest thing to deconstruct.
Madison Reed:But I think, if you're someone that maybe doesn't have this big sense of performance-based identity but are worried about going there, the power of why is such a great tool and I think people talk about it specifically with feelings like okay, why am I feeling anger or sad? But I think it can be anything. It's why am I choosing a yellow swimsuit over a blue swimsuit? Asking yourself those questions, it's like, well, this reminds me of sunshine and you can attach it to a memory, or just be like well, I just never get outside, and this is my one way to do that. It's though you are leading with your sense of self. It's just not being noticed, and the moment that we start noticing it, the more comfortability is going to be there. And that doesn't have to be in these like big, tangible, like deep ways. It can just be in small things of like dinner or while you're listening to a song, or just checking in with that sense of self, can empower it enough that that performance-based identity isn't going to win.
Cristine Seidell:Yeah, well, and I think that kind of goes to like how you, how you work with clients in general, like finding that that lens of authenticity, right, like who we authentically are, is not rooted in our performance. You know, our authenticity does make things occur in this world. It does, you know, bring about change and brings beauty, and it brings, you know, our authenticity does make things occur in this world. It does, you know, bring about change and brings beauty, and it brings, you know, new ideas. Like that's part of authentically what we're here to do, but it's, it's inherently good, it's inherently going to produce goodness.
Cristine Seidell:So, but if you know what that authenticity is, when it's rooted in those characteristics, like you said, like what is it about this that lights me up and makes me me? You know, oh, it's because I love nature. You know, I love beautiful, bright colors. Like I'm a cheerful person. Like coming up with those characteristics that are authentic to you but don't bring about performance, right, like I'm a cheerful person, so I have a large group of friends, right, like some people would be like, oh, you know, she has so many friends. That's in some ways kind of saying like achievement, I've achieved this, versus I have a lot of friends because I'm a cheerful. Cheerful person that's just authentic to who I am. So I think rooting into what are those authentic characteristics is so much of part of asking yourself that why question?
Madison Reed:you know, yeah, and I think something that you just brought up reminded me too where it's. If I am only looking for a pacer of if I'm doing well is if I'm doing good at my job, if I write all of these things that we've kind of talked about, it also kind of stops you from being able to really recognize what your vices are, because right as long as I've got a good paying job and I got this house that I want and the family that I want, I'm good right. Not recognizing, like, what is leading you to that thing, or to lie, or to have dark thoughts or to whatever those things are. And if you're not leading with that authenticity, you're not even going to get to see the flip side, to be able to grow and develop and heal from those different things.
Cristine Seidell:Yeah, and I think that that brings up the point that you were kind of saying, like if you're you know, if you're not conscious of what you're actually feeling in that drive for performance, you're going to be somewhat detached from yourself. Until you're not right, like it always, the nervous system will call you back. It'll be, like how about burnout this this?
Madison Reed:year. That would be fun.
Cristine Seidell:If you're not going to be conscious, then we'll just do burnout. But I think if you're, if I think, if you're going in that mindset and then you know, a little disruptor has you ruminating around that disruption, that's a pretty good indicator that you're really focusing your identity on how others are perceiving your achievements or your performance versus. Is this authentic to who I am?
Cristine Seidell:You know what about like support systems? Like how can you know I know we work with a lot of families and stuff and I know you work with a lot of teens and people rooted in anxiety how can like support systems, even you know, in adulthood, how can they help navigate somebody who's kind of trying to work through their performance based identity?
Madison Reed:Yeah, I think specifically I'm thinking more of like friend groups, so I think you can do this in a family as well. Finding your comfort person is super helpful because, essentially right, if you're recovering from this and you have one person that really you feel comfortable knowing truly who you are, there's going to be a bit of feeling like, okay, I have this person, they've received me. Well, I can now test these other relationships as well as almost being anchored back to that sense of self, right. So if you're at like a big friend gathering and you're noticing you're very detached and you're being super optimistic and bubbly and that's not really who you are, going back to that comfort person and just having that second to just be can help reel that back in and also be a good way to have a comparison, to even recognize that that's something that you're doing, and I think in families it gets a little bit harder because they are a bit habitual and I think what we expect of you, that's what we'll say yeah, but At the end of the day, though, they probably have also seen your truest form, right, because that's going to be when you were a kid and you didn't have the world telling you all these things that you should be, and I think sometimes that can be an empowering thing too to know like this.
Madison Reed:They've seen this already. I have just now covered this all down. Let me see how I can reincorporate this and know that it's not a new thing for them and in a way, they've already accepted it because they've already experienced it. And I think that's where boundaries and all those sorts of things can come into, of putting their expectations in check of who they're expecting you to be when that is not you.
Cristine Seidell:Well, and I think that's such a good point where you're saying, like find your comfort person, right, because that performance based identity, like you said, oftentimes goes back to childhood. So, like the people you would assume like would be your comfort people may not necessarily be your comfort people. They may be, they may be part of that conditioning and so finding that person that you know can see you with authenticity outside of performance, but to see those characteristics that are so intrinsically like who you are and can speak that to you, having that as like a home base, that when I see myself kind of going in that direction, this person is very intentional and that might be a therapist, like sometimes that's the only place that we have. That that, that comfort and that safety of often authenticity. But being rooted in, like I know that this person speaks truth to me from a place of authenticity and not of my value, is inherent to performance. Sometimes that's not in our family systems, like you said, they can be a little habitual, I think, for families, you know, because like that's such an organic place for us to get identity If you're not a performance-based identity person or trying to project that onto somebody but you're really conscious of not wanting that to be something for your children or for your, for your other family members like, be so conscious about speaking that, that those true characteristics into people, right Versus what it is they're achieving or what they're performing, so on, on either side of that relationship.
Cristine Seidell:You know, for people, for listeners who are like you know, I really don't struggle with that, like that's a good reminder. I'm like, okay, if you don't struggle with that, how can you be a supporter of the people that you love and care about by seeing their authenticity and being a speaker of that authenticity when they're struggling or you see them moving in that direction, so well so so tell me a little bit about, like, how does this present itself when it's kind of gotten a little bit out of control? Right Cause you mentioned burnout. I know I've I've worked with clients who who genuinely, especially at young ages, that we wouldn't really think would be. You know, getting this burned out, like not being able to navigate life in the same way. So tell me how this can when it's left unchecked or without a support system, how can this affect somebody negatively?
Madison Reed:Yeah, I think there's honestly a lot of like hot ticket words that I are really this as well, where I think people talk about like gifted kid burnout is a part of this right and we kind of just talked about burnout.
Madison Reed:But I think also midlife crisis is a part of this as well, where it's like I just completed half my life and I have no idea what is underneath all of these things. It's a bit of this like I've hit this wall and now I don't have a sense of self and I'm no longer getting that purpose from my career. And I think with that it comes with a lot of anxiety, because I like to define anxiety. I don't know what the definition is, because I don't think it's that good. So my definition is right yeah, chronically feeling out of control, but your brain's way of finding that sense of control, even if it's not real. So if you are putting your sense of self into all of these things that are not you, that is not in your control, right.
Madison Reed:If you, the test is super hard, or if you know they are minimizing your department or just somebody has wrong expectations, that is not in your control.
Madison Reed:But you're putting so much weight in that your brain is going to try to overcompensate for that and that's where you get a lot of overthinking and that negative self-talk trying to keep you at this like low expectation and just this overall sense of uneasiness, of like somebody is going to find me out that I'm not actually as good at this or some of that, like imposter syndrome things.
Madison Reed:And really it goes even deeper, I think, than anxiety sometimes, where you lose that sense of self-trust where, at the end of the day, you're probably good at your job because there's a piece of you that is good at that. I'm a good therapist because I am empathetic, right, and I get identity from my job. But that is not who I am. But if I were to just be like, oh, I'm just a good therapist because, well, this is what I've chose and this is just who I am, that that piece is going away and that ability to like, I trust myself to do the thing is gone, because I've I've told it for so long that that's not what has led me to this point.
Cristine Seidell:So yeah, so what I'm hearing there is, like you know, if you're doing something without a sense of purpose and purpose is really rooted authenticity, it's rooted in identity and values that are truly aligned with us If we are not doing things with that sense of purpose and understanding and kind of like maybe buy-in, subconsciously, like I'm buying into this because it genuinely kind of lights me up and it feels so authentic and it's a place where I can serve, that detachment is going to occur. And if that detachment occurs for too long, you're brought to a place of anxiety or dysregulation, like the two. If your mind and body are not in sync, it, you know, it will eventually present itself to you physiologically through anxiety, through dysregulation, avoidance, like a way of just not being able to kind of continue. And I think that's a great point, especially with, like midlife, like transitions, like coming to a point where it's like I've done this job or I've done this, or I've been a mom or I've been a parent, or I've been, and now that is changing, or now my, I just lost my job, or you know, I'm not getting you know the awards I used to get that awareness of like I can't do this anymore and we, you know, we see it in a lot of teens that are taking these very, very accelerated courses that they're really developmentally not ready for. Was that something that they felt purpose to do or was that something they felt pressured to do? They felt purpose to do or was that something they felt pressured to do?
Cristine Seidell:So I think you know that point that you're making is like doing things and being in this world with more of a sense of purpose versus what you're getting on the other side of that. When you talked about you being a therapist, you don't go around saying, well, I see X number of clients and here's all their data of who's made, who's made. You know progress and achievements and you're like, I'm a good therapist because I step into a place of service that I feel so purposed for. I see these patterns that I can, that I can speak to and help, and there's that's rooted in purpose, that's not rooted in achievement, you know. So I think that's a really good point from even when you know we're working with littles, for parents to be able to say, here are these really cool characteristics I see in you you know.
Cristine Seidell:So, as they start making decisions for themselves what sport they want to play, or extracurricular or whatever they get to know that they get to do that because they feel skilled and purposed and, you know, excited when they step into that. Yeah, absolutely. So how does somebody if, like, a listener is listening to this and they're like, okay, I've got a real issue with some performance-based identity? I, you know, have done a lot of therapy. I don't know where to start from here, but I'm really, really dysregulated. I know you work with a lot of anxiety. You get a lot of clients who are coming in being like I'm aware of a lot of things, but I'm just completely, my body's just in an anxious state. How would they get started with trying to correct this in a way that's going to have lasting change?
Madison Reed:Yeah, I think that you can always kind of implement some of those grounding techniques because, again, if your brain and your body are not communicating, it's going to be really hard for you to have any sort of awareness in order to be able to change, right. So I think coming up with a game plan that works for you and everyone's kind of got to test their own things there is unfortunately not a one size fits all but right, it is 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, where I go through all my senses and I find the things in the room or I have a specific playlist that feels like me, that I put on afterwards, right, and I have that auditory kind of grounding. It's a comfort blanket or a plushie you slept with as a kid or like whatever those fun things are that are something with my body that's connected to my sense of self. That kind of combines a little bit of those grounding techniques and what we're trying to do, which is reconnect with who you are and act accordingly. So those are kind of like my kind of go-to.
Madison Reed:But from there, right, it's unfortunately not an easy thing because at the end of the day, you probably have gone 15, 20, 30, 50 years with this habit and just like any habit, it's going to take some time and it's through awareness and then doing the grounding things and being easy on yourself. When maybe you just slip back into that performance-based identity, that's okay, right, and that's where the comfort people come into is at the end of the day, like that person should be your reward. A little bit of this person sees me and I like my relationship and you probably feel more connected. That is going to help you continue and get some momentum, because the rest of your life can have that same sort of color and feeling to it as well.
Cristine Seidell:Yeah, or the same color and feeling of being in that cycle of you know, of performing, you know. So what, all of those strategies that you just explained about grounding and it's all of that was just being, it wasn't doing. That's a really good recommendation. Is, like you know, and it's so interesting and you probably see this too Like when people come to therapy they're like what do I do? What do I do? What do I do?
Cristine Seidell:And oftentimes the answer is like you be, you know, you do the things that bring you back to a place of calm, to a place of familiarity, like a stuffy from childhood, or like come to a place of just being versus doing, because you can't hear, you can't hear yourself if your brain is just playing in rumination, and that's what often, that's what's happening, even though we're not aware of it, in high levels of anxiety. So, you know, going back to that bio of yours, authenticity and groundedness, like that's where all the answers occur. And I love that you said that every situation is so different, because as a therapist, you can't even hear that until they get to a place of grounding, because they can't hear it, you know, they're really the ones that can access it. So, finding you know those practices that get you back into a place of being, having that comfort person who can be a place of reflection for them. So it's like this reminder of what the body already knows but can't hear because the brain is telling its chatter that doesn't matter, so to speak.
Cristine Seidell:And you know, I think, starting with a like a therapist like yourself, where they really do know how to be present with you in that place, do those types of interventions like the value sort sort card, so they can see sometimes they can't access it when they're they're first coming to therapy because they're trying to fix it but they can't actually be with themselves, with their values and and hear that authenticity again. So I think that, like you, just kind of giving the scope of like pause, don't do anything right now, come to a place of being, and that that's that's a tough threshold for a lot of people to cross, because I think, even as a culture, we're so conditioned to do yeah, absolutely, so well, is there anything else you'd like to add about performance-based anxiety? Or you know anything that the that you feel like would be a good resource for listeners?
Madison Reed:Um, I, I guess my maybe just like a word of encouragement of, like, the world is really loud and there's a lot of expectations and a lot of people telling you that you've got to work harder and do and do and do and do, but right, telling you that you've got to work harder and do and do and do and do, but right. I think it's important to kind of take a step back and figure out it's not even a sense of self, but just what do you want out of life and how do you get there? And chances are, those things are not going to just be. I want to be a billionaire, so I'm going to work super hard, right, it's going to be. I want to feel loved and I want to just be happy, and those are going to be kind of your guiders for why you should be doing some of this work and how to kind of pull it back to find really what, what that path is to get those things. Um, so, yeah, everyone could do it.
Cristine Seidell:I think I think that's you. You hit the nail on the head. It's like I think I think that's you. Hit the nail on the head is like. I think sometimes we feel like what will make me happy is when I go and I do these things and I get these accomplishments. But when people get there, one of the first things they tend to say is I want to feel peace, I want to feel love, I want to feel free All of which performance based anxiety doesn't provide you Right. It kind of feels like it keeps you trapped. So I think you know your recommendation of really coming back to know who you are will guide you in the right direction, and being able to be grounded is really one of the first steps to doing that.
Cristine Seidell:And I have to say, whenever I talk to Madison, she has just a soothing voice. I don't know what it is, but it's the tone or it's the cadence or whatever it is. I always feel so relaxed by your voice and sometimes that in and of itself is something that we need to be like wow, let me just be in this conversation or let me be in this space with somebody. So if anybody would like to work with Madison, I'm going to put a link to her bio and ways that you can work with her. And she is amazing with anxiety, as you probably can hear in this conversation. Whether you're watching us and seeing us or just hearing our voices, she definitely has a very calming, grounded presence, so she's a pleasure to work alongside with, but I can guarantee you she's a pleasure to work with as well. So, madison, anything else you'd like to offer to our friends or I?
Madison Reed:don't think so. Thank you for having me and thank you everyone for listening and it was a lot of fun.
Cristine Seidell:Yes, thank you for joining us. Like I said, I'm going to put a link to your bio and ways that they can contact our practice so they can work with you.
Madison Reed:Sounds good.
Cristine Seidell:All right, thanks everybody for listening.
